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वर्ग > Theological Debate > युगान्त विज्ञान >

sambheki

sambheki (2746 दिनों पहले) (0)

I greet everyone in the name that is above all name Jesus Christ Amen.  I would like to get more opinions on the issue of Trinity I believe the word is not even found in the bible.  The most commonly used scripture is mathew 28.19

I sorely believe Father, Son and Holy Spirit are different people.  God is always instructured us that he is a jeoulos God Exdus 20 Ten commandments.  I woudl like to hear the view of our fellow brothers and sisters.

Buds

Buds (1974 दिनों पहले) (0)

I am happy someone has posted a question regarding the doctrine of the Trinity.  I personally do not feel that Yeshua or the Holy Spirit are part of a triune God but are 2 separate and distinct beings with the Holy Spirit being Yahweh's active force.  Further my understanding is that early Jews who believed in the Messianic promise did not believe in a triune God based on their knowledge of the Torah and the Prophets, as well as their understanding of Yeshua's teachings and the gift of Spirit (one being the gift of knowledge) they received at Penticost. There are several scriptures that can clear this matter up... but for some reason most faiths teach this doctrine.  Here is a link to one explanation I particularly like because of its clear and understandable langugage on the topic:

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/the-truth-about-the-father-t he-son-and-the-holy-spirit/#?insight[search_id]=f8c11469-7e2e-4edd-90f6-449f4df8 affa&insight[search_result_index]=6

In researching this topic for some time, I found an article with many references... if you read through it, you will find in the 9th paragraph that reference I mentioned concerning early Jews and what they believed.  Jews after all were and still are the covenant people who have a special place with Jehovah.  Here is that article:

http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/Contents/doctrine/The%20Origin%20Of %20the%20Trinity.htm

I would love to hear what others have to say on this topic.  My understanding is that the concept of trinity came into focus around the 3rd or 4th century during the reign of Constantine.... at which time there was an argument between those who believed in one God and those who believed in a triune God.  Constantine chose the triune God and banished the idea of one God to preserve his power over the people.  It became a strong doctrine which began at this time with the birth of Catholicism and continues to this day with most all faiths accepting this belief.  

Personally, I feel this doctrine is the work of Satan - what better way to confuse believers than to cloud the very identity of the one true God.... leading them to worship Yeshua rather than Yahwey.  That being said, Yeshua is the only way we can receive redemption... we all owe him a debt of gratitude, our love, our allegience, and our faith in him as the "SON" of God - Jew and Gentile alike.  Reverence is definitely owed to him as the "SON" of God.  This one and olny provision was set forth by Jehovan from the very beginning of time... so that all might receive this provision by BELIEVING (having faith in - as opposed to worshiping).  That provision was to come through the "woman's seed" spoken of in Gen. 3:15.... given after the fall of Adam and Eve.  This can only mean that Yahweh already knew in advance that all of mankind would need such a provision... It also means that Yeshua was in the beginning with Yahweh, and that he was in complete agreement with this provision set forth by Yahweh.  It does not mean that Yeshua and Yahweh are "one" as if they are one and the same person.

 

Buds

Buds (1974 दिनों पहले) (0)

There is one text which points to the possibility of a trinity... other than that there is nothing that clearly teaches the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one (as in one and the same person).  The text in question is at 1 John 5:7-8.  This is what Vincent's Word Studies states about this text:  

 

There are three that bear record (τρεῖς εἰσιν οἱ μαρτυροῦντε&sigmaf ;).
Lit., three are the witnessing ones.
The Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one.
These words are rejected by the general verdict of critical authorities. For the details of the memorable controversy on the passage, the student may consult Frederick Henry Scrivener, “Introduction to the Criticism of the New Testament;” Samuel P. Tregelles, “An Account of the Printed Text of the Greek New Testament;” John Selby Watson, “The Life of Richard Porson, M.A.;” Professor Ezra Abbot, “Orme's Memoir of the Controversy on 1Jo_5:7;” Charles Foster, “A New Plea for the Authenticity of the Text of the Three Heavenly Witnesses,” or “Porson's Letters to Travis Eclectically Examined,” Cambridge, 1867. On the last-named work, Scrivener remarks, “I would fain call it a success if I could with truth. To rebut much of Porson's insolent sophistry was easy, to maintain the genuineness of this passage is simply impossible.” Tregelles gives a list of more than fifty volumes, pamphlets, or critical notices on this question. Porson, in the conclusion of his letters to Travis, says: “In short, if this verse be really genuine, notwithstanding its absence from all the visible Greek manuscripts except two (that of Dublin and the forged one found at Berlin), one of which awkwardly translates the verse from the Latin, and the other transcribes it from a printed book; notwithstanding its absence from all the versions except the Vulgate, even from many of the best and oldest manuscripts of the Vulgate; notwithstanding the deep and dead silence of all the Greek writers down to the thirteenth, and of most of the Latins down to the middle of the eighth century; if, in spite of all these objections, it be still genuine, no part of Scripture whatsoever can be proved either spurious or genuine; and Satan has been permitted for many centuries miraculously to banish the 'finest passage in the New Testament,' as Martin calls it, from the eyes and memories of almost all the Christian authors, translators, and transcribers.”

There are three that bear record (τρεῖς εἰσιν οἱ μαρτυροῦντε&sigmaf ;).

Lit., three are the witnessing ones.

The Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one.

These words are rejected by the general verdict of critical authorities. For the details of the memorable controversy on the passage, the student may consult Frederick Henry Scrivener, “Introduction to the Criticism of the New Testament;” Samuel P. Tregelles, “An Account of the Printed Text of the Greek New Testament;” John Selby Watson, “The Life of Richard Porson, M.A.;” Professor Ezra Abbot, “Orme's Memoir of the Controversy on 1Jo_5:7;” Charles Foster, “A New Plea for the Authenticity of the Text of the Three Heavenly Witnesses,” or “Porson's Letters to Travis Eclectically Examined,” Cambridge, 1867. On the last-named work, Scrivener remarks, “I would fain call it a success if I could with truth. To rebut much of Porson's insolent sophistry was easy, to maintain the genuineness of this passage is simply impossible.” Tregelles gives a list of more than fifty volumes, pamphlets, or critical notices on this question. Porson, in the conclusion of his letters to Travis, says: “In short, if this verse be really genuine, notwithstanding its absence from all the visible Greek manuscripts except two (that of Dublin and the forged one found at Berlin), one of which awkwardly translates the verse from the Latin, and the other transcribes it from a printed book; notwithstanding its absence from all the versions except the Vulgate, even from many of the best and oldest manuscripts of the Vulgate; notwithstanding the deep and dead silence of all the Greek writers down to the thirteenth, and of most of the Latins down to the middle of the eighth century; if, in spite of all these objections, it be still genuine, no part of Scripture whatsoever can be proved either spurious or genuine; and Satan has been permitted for many centuries miraculously to banish the 'finest passage in the New Testament,' as Martin calls it, from the eyes and memories of almost all the Christian authors, translators, and transcribers.”

Further, The Complete Jewish Bible by David Stern does not include this text... the reason is explained in the Jewish New Testament Comentary by the same author where it sites Bruce Metzger's writings about the KJV about this text.  It states there that the passage is absent from all but 4 Greek manuscripts and none of them are earlier than the 14th century CE. It is not found in versions or quotations of any kind prior to the 4th century. Therefore it was omitted from the Complete Jewish Bible.
It seems to me that IF the doctrine of trinity was indeed truly a scriptural teaching, then the teaching would have been mentioned by more than one writer of the bible... It would have been cross referenced several times by other writers... but it was not... Nor is there mention of the word "trinity." The entire concept was unknown by early Jews as well as first century believers in Yeshua.  The very first scripture referenced by the 1st commenter on this thread does not say "and these three are one"... If it did, one would have to study it's origin, when the text was written, and the original meaning of the Greek word used.  

 

toot~friends

toot~friends (1939 दिनों पहले) (0)

wow! ,buds, you are so right on. Thankyou for sharing this. My husband has been rejected by most church house preachers on this matter. we are greatful for you and your knowledge of the trinity question. and thankyou for using His real name YESHUA and our Father YAHWEY. hope to connect and chat with you in the future. God bless.